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	<title>Comments on: Now we know the truth about &quot;crashgate&quot;</title>
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	<description>Not a real vee</description>
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		<title>By: Thoughts on the Renault punishments &#171; vee8 - Formula 1 and motorsport news roundups and opinion</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505526</link>
		<dc:creator>Thoughts on the Renault punishments &#171; vee8 - Formula 1 and motorsport news roundups and opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505526</guid>
		<description>[...] as I have pointed out in a previous article, Martin Brundle (another person who has driven for Briatore) is not convinced that Piquet was under [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as I have pointed out in a previous article, Martin Brundle (another person who has driven for Briatore) is not convinced that Piquet was under [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EGC</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505525</link>
		<dc:creator>EGC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505525</guid>
		<description>@ Crid...
Nelsinho and man cannot be toguether in a sentence...
He&#039;s just a crying boy...
Anyway, i love your dream :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Crid&#8230;<br />
Nelsinho and man cannot be toguether in a sentence&#8230;<br />
He&#8217;s just a crying boy&#8230;<br />
Anyway, i love your dream <img src='http://doctorvee.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505524</link>
		<dc:creator>Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505524</guid>
		<description>(Again, props to the commenter at Keith&#039;s.  Maybe it&#039;s an obvious point, but that&#039;s where I first heard someone say it out loud.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Again, props to the commenter at Keith&#8217;s.  Maybe it&#8217;s an obvious point, but that&#8217;s where I first heard someone say it out loud.)</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Stephen</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505523</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505523</guid>
		<description>Interesting point Crid. There is a story in The Telegraph today that says that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/renault/6199553/Flavio-Briatore-and-Pat-Symonds-face-extraditon-threat-over-race-fixing-scandal.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Briatore and Symonds may face extradition&lt;/a&gt; over the scheme. But as you quite rightly point out, Nelsinho Piquet is the man with the ultimate responsibility. He was the person who had the power to say &#039;no&#039;. But he said &#039;yes&#039;. I would think if the Singaporean authorities are interested in Briatore and Symonds, they will be even more interested in Nelsinho.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting point Crid. There is a story in The Telegraph today that says that <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/renault/6199553/Flavio-Briatore-and-Pat-Symonds-face-extraditon-threat-over-race-fixing-scandal.html" rel="nofollow">Briatore and Symonds may face extradition</a> over the scheme. But as you quite rightly point out, Nelsinho Piquet is the man with the ultimate responsibility. He was the person who had the power to say &#8216;no&#8217;. But he said &#8216;yes&#8217;. I would think if the Singaporean authorities are interested in Briatore and Symonds, they will be even more interested in Nelsinho.</p>
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		<title>By: Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505522</link>
		<dc:creator>Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505522</guid>
		<description>PS- One last fantasy, nourished by a comment from Keith&#039;s: The final responsibility for this debacle stands with Nelsinho.  He&#039;s the man who actually put innocent lives at serious risk, and then (allegedly) sat silently on the truth about indisputably criminal misconduct for nearly a year.

The dream goes like this: Young Mr. Piquet shows up at Singapore airport in 2012...  Maybe it&#039;s a stopover to Tokyo, maybe it&#039;s another race of some kind, maybe there&#039;s a chess tournament at Raffles Hotel... Whatever.  As he steps off the plane, he&#039;s &lt;em&gt;arrested&lt;/em&gt; and thrown into a slow, quiet &lt;em&gt;jail&lt;/em&gt; for threatening the safety of Singapore&#039;s race fans.

Would anyone have a problem with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS- One last fantasy, nourished by a comment from Keith&#8217;s: The final responsibility for this debacle stands with Nelsinho.  He&#8217;s the man who actually put innocent lives at serious risk, and then (allegedly) sat silently on the truth about indisputably criminal misconduct for nearly a year.</p>
<p>The dream goes like this: Young Mr. Piquet shows up at Singapore airport in 2012&#8230;  Maybe it&#8217;s a stopover to Tokyo, maybe it&#8217;s another race of some kind, maybe there&#8217;s a chess tournament at Raffles Hotel&#8230; Whatever.  As he steps off the plane, he&#8217;s <em>arrested</em> and thrown into a slow, quiet <em>jail</em> for threatening the safety of Singapore&#8217;s race fans.</p>
<p>Would anyone have a problem with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505521</link>
		<dc:creator>Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505521</guid>
		<description>Guys, c&#039;mon.... Is there any boundary, any at all, to the villainy people will ascribe to Briatore?

Why do people hate him so?  Because he&#039;s not a &#039;real&#039; car guy, like Ron Dennis?

Go read Keith&#039;s message stack (it was about 3 pages as of last night)... Dozens of people are saying &quot;Alonso knew!  Of course he knew!  HE KNEW!&quot;

And someone will say &quot;Why do you think so?&quot;

And they&#039;ll say &quot;Because he WOULD HAVE known!&quot;
__________

It&#039;s just not believable that so many people would have taken so many crazys**t risks just so Alonso (Alonso!) could possibly perhaps maybe have a chance to win some points forty-five laps later.

I think this is Mosley&#039;s goodbye gift for Bernie.  When Briatore made noises earlier this year about running a competitive series, I was ready to believe he&#039;d do it, and do it well.  Bernie probably didn&#039;t like that.

This generation of leaders did a lot for the series.  They absolutely transformed it into a safe, accessible, heavily-funded, brilliantly entertaining spectacle.  But it&#039;s like a family reunion of seniors who&#039;ve never forgiven their little sisters for stealing their pudding at some childhood dinner.  When these guys are all offstage, that will be OK too.

(Brawn excepted... We&#039;d miss him a LOT.)

Hel-lo, Mister Horner!  We&#039;ve got the carpeting ready for your new office....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, c&#8217;mon&#8230;. Is there any boundary, any at all, to the villainy people will ascribe to Briatore?</p>
<p>Why do people hate him so?  Because he&#8217;s not a &#8216;real&#8217; car guy, like Ron Dennis?</p>
<p>Go read Keith&#8217;s message stack (it was about 3 pages as of last night)&#8230; Dozens of people are saying &#8220;Alonso knew!  Of course he knew!  HE KNEW!&#8221;</p>
<p>And someone will say &#8220;Why do you think so?&#8221;</p>
<p>And they&#8217;ll say &#8220;Because he WOULD HAVE known!&#8221;<br />
__________</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just not believable that so many people would have taken so many crazys**t risks just so Alonso (Alonso!) could possibly perhaps maybe have a chance to win some points forty-five laps later.</p>
<p>I think this is Mosley&#8217;s goodbye gift for Bernie.  When Briatore made noises earlier this year about running a competitive series, I was ready to believe he&#8217;d do it, and do it well.  Bernie probably didn&#8217;t like that.</p>
<p>This generation of leaders did a lot for the series.  They absolutely transformed it into a safe, accessible, heavily-funded, brilliantly entertaining spectacle.  But it&#8217;s like a family reunion of seniors who&#8217;ve never forgiven their little sisters for stealing their pudding at some childhood dinner.  When these guys are all offstage, that will be OK too.</p>
<p>(Brawn excepted&#8230; We&#8217;d miss him a LOT.)</p>
<p>Hel-lo, Mister Horner!  We&#8217;ve got the carpeting ready for your new office&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Stephen</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505520</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505520</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment Samuel.

I think there have been a lot of different interpretations of that comment from Flavio.

Firstly, I think Flavio is quite a good liar -- his exaggerated behaviours makes it easy to hide everything under a layer of bombast.

I have heard a few people suggest that Flavio&#039;s comment revealed that he was not interested in the safety of his driver.

Another point to consider is the rumour that Piquet was actually supposed to crash into the wall on his right, so actually had a far bigger crash than he was meant to (presumably he wasn&#039;t supposed to do so much damage to his car!). The fact that Piquet was unable to even crash his car correctly may have been the reason for Briatore&#039;s comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Samuel.</p>
<p>I think there have been a lot of different interpretations of that comment from Flavio.</p>
<p>Firstly, I think Flavio is quite a good liar &#8212; his exaggerated behaviours makes it easy to hide everything under a layer of bombast.</p>
<p>I have heard a few people suggest that Flavio&#8217;s comment revealed that he was not interested in the safety of his driver.</p>
<p>Another point to consider is the rumour that Piquet was actually supposed to crash into the wall on his right, so actually had a far bigger crash than he was meant to (presumably he wasn&#8217;t supposed to do so much damage to his car!). The fact that Piquet was unable to even crash his car correctly may have been the reason for Briatore&#8217;s comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505519</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505519</guid>
		<description>Reading the conversations among the team members, which have been leaked to the press, there is something that Flavio say that suggests me he may be innocent (or really machiavelic). It happens just after the crash:

Flavio:
F***ing hell…my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a
driver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading the conversations among the team members, which have been leaked to the press, there is something that Flavio say that suggests me he may be innocent (or really machiavelic). It happens just after the crash:</p>
<p>Flavio:<br />
F***ing hell…my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a<br />
driver.</p>
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		<title>By: Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505518</link>
		<dc:creator>Crid [CridComment @ gmail]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505518</guid>
		<description>(Again, forgive comments already made elsewhere, but--)

Nelsonho always looked so &lt;em&gt;miserable&lt;/em&gt;.  Listen, even if I was that lousy a driver, I&#039;d have tried to have a smile or two during what was likely to be a short career in a tremendously rewarding sports league.  Over here in the States, it&#039;s said that our &#039;football&#039; players average career is four years... Most of those guys don&#039;t save the money like they should, but you get the sense that at least they&#039;re enjoying it while they can. They smile... They tell stupid jokes to fans.  They swagger in front of women.

(And yes, there was a rumor about that somewhere last week, I&#039;ll have to look it up.)

Nelsinho never did any of that!  Maybe fear of flaming death was why he didn&#039;t.  (Or perhaps this is all true, and that fear wasn&#039;t as powerful as we might have thought.)

In any case, mollycoddled is a good word.  Now, I admire fathers who can assist their sons, and assist them grandly.  But we always had the sense that this Piquet&#039;s heart was in other places.  To imagine him pulling a stunt like this on behalf of *anyone* in the sport, let alone a talented senior player like a Alonso, is just &lt;em&gt;weird&lt;/em&gt;...  Family weird, spiritual weird, childish weird.

Teams come and go, so maybe this isn&#039;t a big deal for F1.  (People don&#039;t talk much about Ron Dennis anymore, though I think they should.)  But as a story of human interest, I&#039;m looking forward to the next chapters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Again, forgive comments already made elsewhere, but&#8211;)</p>
<p>Nelsonho always looked so <em>miserable</em>.  Listen, even if I was that lousy a driver, I&#8217;d have tried to have a smile or two during what was likely to be a short career in a tremendously rewarding sports league.  Over here in the States, it&#8217;s said that our &#8216;football&#8217; players average career is four years&#8230; Most of those guys don&#8217;t save the money like they should, but you get the sense that at least they&#8217;re enjoying it while they can. They smile&#8230; They tell stupid jokes to fans.  They swagger in front of women.</p>
<p>(And yes, there was a rumor about that somewhere last week, I&#8217;ll have to look it up.)</p>
<p>Nelsinho never did any of that!  Maybe fear of flaming death was why he didn&#8217;t.  (Or perhaps this is all true, and that fear wasn&#8217;t as powerful as we might have thought.)</p>
<p>In any case, mollycoddled is a good word.  Now, I admire fathers who can assist their sons, and assist them grandly.  But we always had the sense that this Piquet&#8217;s heart was in other places.  To imagine him pulling a stunt like this on behalf of *anyone* in the sport, let alone a talented senior player like a Alonso, is just <em>weird</em>&#8230;  Family weird, spiritual weird, childish weird.</p>
<p>Teams come and go, so maybe this isn&#8217;t a big deal for F1.  (People don&#8217;t talk much about Ron Dennis anymore, though I think they should.)  But as a story of human interest, I&#8217;m looking forward to the next chapters.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Stephen</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/09/15/now-we-know-the-truth-about-crashgate/comment-page-1/#comment-1505517</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2613#comment-1505517</guid>
		<description>Hi Cridland,

I think your reading is right, although I think Pat Symonds&#039;s statement more or less amounted to a confession -- at least a confession that the plan existed. I am still not sure about Briatore&#039;s involvement. We will have to see what happens at the WMSC meeting, which is still very important.

I wonder if Flav would still be up for managing an F1 team. The last time he was ousted from Benetton, he took a bit of a back seat, managing Supertec. He also has his involvement with Queens Park Rangers FC, though given that he works there with Bernie who knows what the future holds there.

I don&#039;t buy this stuff about Nelsinho being too young. He is 24 for crying out loud. Vettel is 22 and challenging for the Championship. Alguersuari is 19; Buemi is 20. Piquet was an adult. But he was so insecure. This is where I think Briatore was on the button. Everywhere else he has driven, it has been for his daddy&#039;s team, where he was mollycoddled and wrapped in cotton wool. Exposed to the harsh world of F1, he couldn&#039;t hack it. Simple as. A stronger driver wouldn&#039;t have considered deliberately crashing a car in my view.

Your point about Webber&#039;s comments is interesting. I hadn&#039;t thought about it that way before. It is no secret that Briatore has a &quot;unique&quot; management style. Sébastien Bourdais even sacrificed his F1 career back in the day because he did not want to be managed by Briatore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cridland,</p>
<p>I think your reading is right, although I think Pat Symonds&#8217;s statement more or less amounted to a confession &#8212; at least a confession that the plan existed. I am still not sure about Briatore&#8217;s involvement. We will have to see what happens at the WMSC meeting, which is still very important.</p>
<p>I wonder if Flav would still be up for managing an F1 team. The last time he was ousted from Benetton, he took a bit of a back seat, managing Supertec. He also has his involvement with Queens Park Rangers FC, though given that he works there with Bernie who knows what the future holds there.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t buy this stuff about Nelsinho being too young. He is 24 for crying out loud. Vettel is 22 and challenging for the Championship. Alguersuari is 19; Buemi is 20. Piquet was an adult. But he was so insecure. This is where I think Briatore was on the button. Everywhere else he has driven, it has been for his daddy&#8217;s team, where he was mollycoddled and wrapped in cotton wool. Exposed to the harsh world of F1, he couldn&#8217;t hack it. Simple as. A stronger driver wouldn&#8217;t have considered deliberately crashing a car in my view.</p>
<p>Your point about Webber&#8217;s comments is interesting. I hadn&#8217;t thought about it that way before. It is no secret that Briatore has a &#8220;unique&#8221; management style. Sébastien Bourdais even sacrificed his F1 career back in the day because he did not want to be managed by Briatore.</p>
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