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	<title>Comments on: New teams get a taste of Mosley vindictiveness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/</link>
	<description>Not a real vee</description>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505385</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505385</guid>
		<description>Hello
I see that Lola took the decent decision. The statement was significant for it&#039;s terseness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello<br />
I see that Lola took the decent decision. The statement was significant for it&#8217;s terseness.</p>
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		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505384</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505384</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s fair to say that F2 is in competition with GP2.

F2 was set up by Max Mosley during the period when he was still getting a lot of bad publicity over his &quot;German prison&quot; themed sex orgies. At that point, Bernie Ecclestone was saying in public that Max Mosley should stand down. So the creation of F2 was more of an attack on Bernie Ecclestone than Flavio Briatore.

It is interesting that, even though Max and Bernie appear to have made up, the FIA continues to push the F2 concept heavily. It&#039;s probably no stretch to imagine that the existence of F2 may annoy Flavio Briatore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s fair to say that F2 is in competition with GP2.</p>
<p>F2 was set up by Max Mosley during the period when he was still getting a lot of bad publicity over his &#8220;German prison&#8221; themed sex orgies. At that point, Bernie Ecclestone was saying in public that Max Mosley should stand down. So the creation of F2 was more of an attack on Bernie Ecclestone than Flavio Briatore.</p>
<p>It is interesting that, even though Max and Bernie appear to have made up, the FIA continues to push the F2 concept heavily. It&#8217;s probably no stretch to imagine that the existence of F2 may annoy Flavio Briatore.</p>
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		<title>By: Cridland [CommentCrid@gmail.com]</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505383</link>
		<dc:creator>Cridland [CommentCrid@gmail.com]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505383</guid>
		<description>I think what Bernie wants from FOTA re: Williams is a fig leaf.  He wants to be able to say &quot;I don&#039;t like customer cars either, Frank, but since everyone&#039;s decided we have to have more teams on the grid, my hands are tied...  It&#039;s not that I &lt;em&gt;want&lt;/em&gt; to have all these lucrative contracts with new teams...&quot;

&gt; Perhaps he is opposed to the
&gt; budget cap in principle

Brawn&#039;s an easy guy to like, isn&#039;t he?  He&#039;s been on both sides of the F1 budget, and we get the feeling he knows the roles that everyone has to play.  He didn&#039;t get upset when Ferrari accused him of cheating with diffuser a few months ago, and he didn&#039;t get upset when Rubens started whinging about team orders a few weeks ago.  For an engineer, he seems to have a lot of emotional insight.  He just smiles at us through those &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&amp;sa=1&amp;q=Charles+Laughton&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Charles Laughton&lt;/A&gt; jowls of his... And then he wins.

Thanks for the explanation of the GP2 vs. F2.  Are these ventures in competition with each other in any meaningful sense?  By that I mean— Would the F2 series make Briatore even angrier at Mosely?

And –thinking out loud– How does Briatore&#039;s management of Kovi &amp; Webber play into his loyalties?  Presumably any breakaway series would be less lucrative for drivers than F1 is, so Flavio&#039;s management fees would be diminished.

Anyway, I like the idea of support races, and would watch or download them if I could... Monaco&#039;s Monaco, bay-bee!, no matter who&#039;s driving.  Wouldn&#039;t it be great if there were five hours&#039; worth of rubber on the track for the first F1 lap of Turkey?

There was an article comparing F1 and Nascar a couple years ago that talked about how the American Hillbillies will race in more than one series at a time without penalty.  Nowadays, being in F1 is like being a brain surgeon who isn&#039;t allowed to wrap a sprained ankle.   (&quot;Le Mans excepted!&quot;, say Ant &amp; Bourdais...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what Bernie wants from FOTA re: Williams is a fig leaf.  He wants to be able to say &#8220;I don&#8217;t like customer cars either, Frank, but since everyone&#8217;s decided we have to have more teams on the grid, my hands are tied&#8230;  It&#8217;s not that I <em>want</em> to have all these lucrative contracts with new teams&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&gt; Perhaps he is opposed to the<br />
&gt; budget cap in principle</p>
<p>Brawn&#8217;s an easy guy to like, isn&#8217;t he?  He&#8217;s been on both sides of the F1 budget, and we get the feeling he knows the roles that everyone has to play.  He didn&#8217;t get upset when Ferrari accused him of cheating with diffuser a few months ago, and he didn&#8217;t get upset when Rubens started whinging about team orders a few weeks ago.  For an engineer, he seems to have a lot of emotional insight.  He just smiles at us through those <a HREF="http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&amp;sa=1&amp;q=Charles+Laughton" rel="nofollow">Charles Laughton</a> jowls of his&#8230; And then he wins.</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation of the GP2 vs. F2.  Are these ventures in competition with each other in any meaningful sense?  By that I mean— Would the F2 series make Briatore even angrier at Mosely?</p>
<p>And –thinking out loud– How does Briatore&#8217;s management of Kovi &amp; Webber play into his loyalties?  Presumably any breakaway series would be less lucrative for drivers than F1 is, so Flavio&#8217;s management fees would be diminished.</p>
<p>Anyway, I like the idea of support races, and would watch or download them if I could&#8230; Monaco&#8217;s Monaco, bay-bee!, no matter who&#8217;s driving.  Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if there were five hours&#8217; worth of rubber on the track for the first F1 lap of Turkey?</p>
<p>There was an article comparing F1 and Nascar a couple years ago that talked about how the American Hillbillies will race in more than one series at a time without penalty.  Nowadays, being in F1 is like being a brain surgeon who isn&#8217;t allowed to wrap a sprained ankle.   (&#8220;Le Mans excepted!&#8221;, say Ant &amp; Bourdais&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505382</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505382</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment again Cridland.

I&#039;m not sure about the theory about Williams. If Bernie wanted to drive Williams away, I am sure there are much easier ways of doing it than this.

I&#039;m not sure I get your point about Ross Brawn either. I agree that it&#039;s surprising that he hasn&#039;t hopped onto the FIA&#039;s side, for the budget cap reason alone. Perhaps he is opposed to the budget cap in principle, even if it may advantage his team.

Max&#039;s Formula Two is a new invention, brand new this year. It tends to support WTCC races.

It has only had one meeting so far. GP2 is Bernie&#039;s and Flavio&#039;s creation, which has been running for about five years. It replaced International Formula 3000, and acts as the main F1 support race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment again Cridland.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure about the theory about Williams. If Bernie wanted to drive Williams away, I am sure there are much easier ways of doing it than this.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I get your point about Ross Brawn either. I agree that it&#8217;s surprising that he hasn&#8217;t hopped onto the FIA&#8217;s side, for the budget cap reason alone. Perhaps he is opposed to the budget cap in principle, even if it may advantage his team.</p>
<p>Max&#8217;s Formula Two is a new invention, brand new this year. It tends to support WTCC races.</p>
<p>It has only had one meeting so far. GP2 is Bernie&#8217;s and Flavio&#8217;s creation, which has been running for about five years. It replaced International Formula 3000, and acts as the main F1 support race.</p>
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		<title>By: Cridland [CommentCrid@gmail.com]</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505381</link>
		<dc:creator>Cridland [CommentCrid@gmail.com]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505381</guid>
		<description>&gt; It’s the way Max Mosley does his
&gt; business: personality politics,
&gt; vindictiveness and grandstanding.
&gt; He clearly gets a thrill out of
&gt; putting people in painful situations.

First of all, I recognize your subtext...  !

But are you certain that Bernie isn&#039;t being crueler than anyone?  See comment in the previous blog post...  I think Bernie feels like Williams is a second cousin who comes to visit and won&#039;t leave, and he needs help from the rest of the family (especially from snotty brother-in-law Max) to get him out of the basement.

What does Bernie care if, as a by-product of the change to the sport that can bring in more teams for him, Mosley gets to throw his weight around a little?  Bernie is the master of the &lt;em&gt;contracts&lt;/em&gt;, and that&#039;s where the action is.

Two more questions:

First, How is that Mosley&#039;s vanity project, &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Two&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Formula Two&lt;/A&gt;, doesn&#039;t collide with Briatore&#039;s vanity project, &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2_Series&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GP2&lt;/A&gt;?  Which of those series is superior?  How come before writing this comment, I didn&#039;t know they were two different things?

Second, wouldn&#039;t you expect Brawn to be loyal to Bernie (+FIA)?  Wasn&#039;t Ross B essentially an unemployed engineer until Bernie handed him the keys to his own castle as a Christmas present?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; It’s the way Max Mosley does his<br />
&gt; business: personality politics,<br />
&gt; vindictiveness and grandstanding.<br />
&gt; He clearly gets a thrill out of<br />
&gt; putting people in painful situations.</p>
<p>First of all, I recognize your subtext&#8230;  !</p>
<p>But are you certain that Bernie isn&#8217;t being crueler than anyone?  See comment in the previous blog post&#8230;  I think Bernie feels like Williams is a second cousin who comes to visit and won&#8217;t leave, and he needs help from the rest of the family (especially from snotty brother-in-law Max) to get him out of the basement.</p>
<p>What does Bernie care if, as a by-product of the change to the sport that can bring in more teams for him, Mosley gets to throw his weight around a little?  Bernie is the master of the <em>contracts</em>, and that&#8217;s where the action is.</p>
<p>Two more questions:</p>
<p>First, How is that Mosley&#8217;s vanity project, <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Two" rel="nofollow">Formula Two</a>, doesn&#8217;t collide with Briatore&#8217;s vanity project, <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2_Series" rel="nofollow">GP2</a>?  Which of those series is superior?  How come before writing this comment, I didn&#8217;t know they were two different things?</p>
<p>Second, wouldn&#8217;t you expect Brawn to be loyal to Bernie (+FIA)?  Wasn&#8217;t Ross B essentially an unemployed engineer until Bernie handed him the keys to his own castle as a Christmas present?</p>
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		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505380</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505380</guid>
		<description>Thanks Leslie. I liked your comment on Clive&#039;s site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Leslie. I liked your comment on Clive&#8217;s site.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505379</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505379</guid>
		<description>Doctorvee can&#039;t agree more. See my post on Clives Insight.

Cheers................/Leslie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doctorvee can&#8217;t agree more. See my post on Clives Insight.</p>
<p>Cheers&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;./Leslie</p>
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		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505378</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505378</guid>
		<description>Pink Peril, I totally sympathise. I&#039;m on the verge of giving up too. I certainly can&#039;t see myself caring much for a Championship that contains a grid full of middling F3 teams plugging in a standard Cosworth, and no Ferrari, Mercedes or other manufacturers. The best hope is for the FIA to do the c-word -- compromise (not likely) -- or for Fota to *gulp* set up a breakaway series.

I&#039;ve not been happy with Max Mosley for years, but this whole stunt really takes the biscuit, and I&#039;m becoming thoroughly fed up with F1. His vision stinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pink Peril, I totally sympathise. I&#8217;m on the verge of giving up too. I certainly can&#8217;t see myself caring much for a Championship that contains a grid full of middling F3 teams plugging in a standard Cosworth, and no Ferrari, Mercedes or other manufacturers. The best hope is for the FIA to do the c-word &#8212; compromise (not likely) &#8212; or for Fota to *gulp* set up a breakaway series.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not been happy with Max Mosley for years, but this whole stunt really takes the biscuit, and I&#8217;m becoming thoroughly fed up with F1. His vision stinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Pink Peril</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505377</link>
		<dc:creator>Pink Peril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505377</guid>
		<description>You know, I am finding it hard to care any more. The constant political bickering &amp; scandals since 2005 has just about worn me out. Coupled with  a dull(ish) championship, and I find myself starting to lose interest in F1 this year. And that didn&#039;t even happen after the borefest that was 2004 ! Never thought I&#039;d see the day. Good one S&amp;Max. Way to alienate your fanbase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I am finding it hard to care any more. The constant political bickering &amp; scandals since 2005 has just about worn me out. Coupled with  a dull(ish) championship, and I find myself starting to lose interest in F1 this year. And that didn&#8217;t even happen after the borefest that was 2004 ! Never thought I&#8217;d see the day. Good one S&amp;Max. Way to alienate your fanbase.</p>
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		<title>By: Clive</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/06/16/new-teams-get-a-taste-of-mosley-vindictiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-1505376</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2264#comment-1505376</guid>
		<description>An innuendo too far, methinks!  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An innuendo too far, methinks!  <img src='http://doctorvee.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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