Comments on: Williams cave in and enter for 2010 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/05/25/williams-cave-in-and-enter-for-2010/ Not a real vee Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:47:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: doctorvee http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/05/25/williams-cave-in-and-enter-for-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1504385 doctorvee Mon, 25 May 2009 13:23:00 +0000 http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2188#comment-1504385 Thanks for the comments and explanations everyone. AC's point is interesting, and highlights the dilemma that the privateers (all currently supplied by Mercedes) face. They will probably want to keep the manufacturers happy -- unless they want to stick with a Cosworth engine that half the grid will probably also have -- while tempted by the budget cap offers. I too thought the teams had a contract with FOM, but Adam Parr specifically states that Williams has a binding contract with <em>both</em> FOM <em>and</em> the FIA. The situation with the Concorde Agreement always confuses me. I remember a couple of years ago it was a huge political issue that Max Mosley had refused to sign the Concorde Agreement, and the teams were upset with him because of it. Alianora's suggestion that the FIA believes there is no Concorde Agreement chimes with this. But it makes you wonder how the FIA has this power over the teams. Is it perhaps notable that Williams was also one of the teams that did a deal with the FIA while the other teams were still thinking about GPMA / GPWC? I seem to remember that they were among the first teams to confirm that they would commit to the FIA's way of business not long after Ferrari did. Thanks for the comments and explanations everyone.

AC’s point is interesting, and highlights the dilemma that the privateers (all currently supplied by Mercedes) face. They will probably want to keep the manufacturers happy — unless they want to stick with a Cosworth engine that half the grid will probably also have — while tempted by the budget cap offers.

I too thought the teams had a contract with FOM, but Adam Parr specifically states that Williams has a binding contract with both FOM and the FIA.

The situation with the Concorde Agreement always confuses me. I remember a couple of years ago it was a huge political issue that Max Mosley had refused to sign the Concorde Agreement, and the teams were upset with him because of it. Alianora’s suggestion that the FIA believes there is no Concorde Agreement chimes with this. But it makes you wonder how the FIA has this power over the teams.

Is it perhaps notable that Williams was also one of the teams that did a deal with the FIA while the other teams were still thinking about GPMA / GPWC? I seem to remember that they were among the first teams to confirm that they would commit to the FIA’s way of business not long after Ferrari did.

]]> By: Alianora La Canta http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/05/25/williams-cave-in-and-enter-for-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1504384 Alianora La Canta Mon, 25 May 2009 13:03:41 +0000 http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2188#comment-1504384 Oh, and the Memorandum of Understanding, from what I understand of what I've read about it, hinges on a Concorde Agreement or similar existing. The FIA is behaving like there isn't a Concorde Agreement, so I'm not sure how dependable the Memorandum would be even if it had been a formally legally enforceable document. Oh, and the Memorandum of Understanding, from what I understand of what I’ve read about it, hinges on a Concorde Agreement or similar existing. The FIA is behaving like there isn’t a Concorde Agreement, so I’m not sure how dependable the Memorandum would be even if it had been a formally legally enforceable document.

]]> By: Alianora La Canta http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/05/25/williams-cave-in-and-enter-for-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1504383 Alianora La Canta Mon, 25 May 2009 13:01:34 +0000 http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2188#comment-1504383 Simple - all the FIA has with most of the teams is a Memorandum of Understanding. Courts are supposed to take such documents into consideration but are not obliged to treat them as legally binding. As a result, the FIA doesn't even have the protection of the courts in this case. Contracts with Bernie are a separate matter. These may oblige some or all teams to enter F1, but the FIA isn't involved in those contracts and therefore demands paperwork and entry fees separately. As far as the FIA are concerned with regard to entries, Bernie is just another team sponsor. Ferrari definitely has a contract with the FIA to compete until 2012, but it is arguing that the FIA has already broken the contract. In that case, Ferrari is not obliged to do anything unless it wants to. Of course, there is nothing to stop a team from entering in 2010, passing/selling the team on to another entity (perhaps a "paper tiger", once they realise that they can't possibly set up an F1 team from scratch on £23m even if they had it) and getting out of F1 that way. But then the FIA will simply sigh about costs and keep pressuring the remaining teams. Simple – all the FIA has with most of the teams is a Memorandum of Understanding. Courts are supposed to take such documents into consideration but are not obliged to treat them as legally binding. As a result, the FIA doesn’t even have the protection of the courts in this case.

Contracts with Bernie are a separate matter. These may oblige some or all teams to enter F1, but the FIA isn’t involved in those contracts and therefore demands paperwork and entry fees separately. As far as the FIA are concerned with regard to entries, Bernie is just another team sponsor.

Ferrari definitely has a contract with the FIA to compete until 2012, but it is arguing that the FIA has already broken the contract. In that case, Ferrari is not obliged to do anything unless it wants to.

Of course, there is nothing to stop a team from entering in 2010, passing/selling the team on to another entity (perhaps a “paper tiger”, once they realise that they can’t possibly set up an F1 team from scratch on £23m even if they had it) and getting out of F1 that way. But then the FIA will simply sigh about costs and keep pressuring the remaining teams.

]]> By: AC http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/05/25/williams-cave-in-and-enter-for-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1504382 AC Mon, 25 May 2009 13:01:04 +0000 http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2188#comment-1504382 I think a lot of teams are trying to play both sides... after all Williams needs engines but also can benefit from the Mosley plan. Worse I think are BMW and Mercedes not really committing either way. I think a lot of teams are trying to play both sides… after all Williams needs engines but also can benefit from the Mosley plan.

Worse I think are BMW and Mercedes not really committing either way.

]]> By: F1Wolf http://doctorvee.co.uk/2009/05/25/williams-cave-in-and-enter-for-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1504381 F1Wolf Mon, 25 May 2009 12:55:15 +0000 http://vee8.doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2188#comment-1504381 well, the contract is with FOM probably, not with FIA and apparently teams have to submit entries every year. but this year the deadline is about 6 months earlier to give the new team enough time to get ready well, the contract is with FOM probably, not with FIA

and apparently teams have to submit entries every year. but this year the deadline is about 6 months earlier to give the new team enough time to get ready

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