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	<title>Comments on: Student apathy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/</link>
	<description>Not a real vee</description>
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		<title>By: A pathetic situation &#171; doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-1235822</link>
		<dc:creator>A pathetic situation &#171; doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 01:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-1235822</guid>
		<description>[...] a funny time in politics. I have written a couple of times in the past about why I would consider abstaining, or sympathise with those that do. That provoked some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a funny time in politics. I have written a couple of times in the past about why I would consider abstaining, or sympathise with those that do. That provoked some [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rebels turning to the Tories &#171; doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-615420</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebels turning to the Tories &#171; doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-615420</guid>
		<description>[...] Anyway, before I can get motivated enough to write something decent, I thought I&#8217;d mention an interesting article I read in last week&#8217;s Economist. It touches on a similar topic recently covered on this blog &#8212; student apathy. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Anyway, before I can get motivated enough to write something decent, I thought I&#8217;d mention an interesting article I read in last week&#8217;s Economist. It touches on a similar topic recently covered on this blog &#8212; student apathy. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Miha</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-613390</link>
		<dc:creator>Miha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-613390</guid>
		<description>Wow, an interesting debate!

I think you&#039;ve all made some interesting conclusions. I think it&#039;s great to talk about these things because they really control our lives. 
First of all, politicians are representatives of our will. Or at least they should be. It&#039;s hard not to notice how their pre voting promises always end up in smoke. Oh, where&#039;s the big improvement you&#039;ve been promising for years? It&#039;s still not there. You see, we shouldn&#039;t expect a lot from politicians. Even though they are representatives, the whole world is led by just a few persons. It always was, really. 
So, we shouldn&#039;t get too cynical about voting. It&#039;s still our right and not our duty. Of course a lot of people will still vote because they seem to identify with some ideology, not with the person representing it. And that&#039;s a huge problem really. A lot of people vote just because others tell them to. It&#039;s obvious in large families, it&#039;s like a peer pressure of some sort.  And that&#039;s the sole reason why political parties get so many votes.  People vote just &#039;cause they like the shirt that guy is wearing or because of the big smile and promises on print ads. Hope as such is always a good manipulator when it comes to politics. People are always in some sort of sh*t. So they long for hope, and there&#039;s nothing wrong with that really. You always need hope to get through life. 
So, if you wanted to take Doctor Vee&#039;s view, there&#039;s nothing wrong with that I think. If you can&#039;t identify with some sort of ideology that you feel isn&#039;t proper, you shouldn&#039;t.  It&#039;s against your own will. And you should always stick by your own principles. 

However,  I&#039;m not totally sure if a person can have a lot of influence on others if he/she doesn&#039;t vote. If you don&#039;t vote you&#039;re no different from others who didn&#039;t vote also. Of course, there&#039;s the power of internet and blogging, which is ok, but - I think - is of little influence. Of course a person reading this blog will maybe see voting process and politics&#039; disilussion in a different light, but that&#039;s about it. You can&#039;t change the world alone…I think a web society of some sort or maybe just a website (similar to myspace or facebook) could have a lot of followers, because we all seem disillusioned sometimes.
But who knows what the future holds. If anything, we should still feel quite lucky to be living in a democracy (with all its faults) &#039;cause it&#039;s still a hundred times better than living in totalitarianism!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, an interesting debate!</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve all made some interesting conclusions. I think it&#8217;s great to talk about these things because they really control our lives.<br />
First of all, politicians are representatives of our will. Or at least they should be. It&#8217;s hard not to notice how their pre voting promises always end up in smoke. Oh, where&#8217;s the big improvement you&#8217;ve been promising for years? It&#8217;s still not there. You see, we shouldn&#8217;t expect a lot from politicians. Even though they are representatives, the whole world is led by just a few persons. It always was, really.<br />
So, we shouldn&#8217;t get too cynical about voting. It&#8217;s still our right and not our duty. Of course a lot of people will still vote because they seem to identify with some ideology, not with the person representing it. And that&#8217;s a huge problem really. A lot of people vote just because others tell them to. It&#8217;s obvious in large families, it&#8217;s like a peer pressure of some sort.  And that&#8217;s the sole reason why political parties get so many votes.  People vote just &#8217;cause they like the shirt that guy is wearing or because of the big smile and promises on print ads. Hope as such is always a good manipulator when it comes to politics. People are always in some sort of sh*t. So they long for hope, and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that really. You always need hope to get through life.<br />
So, if you wanted to take Doctor Vee&#8217;s view, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that I think. If you can&#8217;t identify with some sort of ideology that you feel isn&#8217;t proper, you shouldn&#8217;t.  It&#8217;s against your own will. And you should always stick by your own principles. </p>
<p>However,  I&#8217;m not totally sure if a person can have a lot of influence on others if he/she doesn&#8217;t vote. If you don&#8217;t vote you&#8217;re no different from others who didn&#8217;t vote also. Of course, there&#8217;s the power of internet and blogging, which is ok, but &#8211; I think &#8211; is of little influence. Of course a person reading this blog will maybe see voting process and politics&#8217; disilussion in a different light, but that&#8217;s about it. You can&#8217;t change the world alone…I think a web society of some sort or maybe just a website (similar to myspace or facebook) could have a lot of followers, because we all seem disillusioned sometimes.<br />
But who knows what the future holds. If anything, we should still feel quite lucky to be living in a democracy (with all its faults) &#8217;cause it&#8217;s still a hundred times better than living in totalitarianism!</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Campbell</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-600022</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-600022</guid>
		<description>Because of my life choices I have lived and worked in countries that I did not have the right to vote. I had most other rights except the right to join the US Military or work for the US Government. I am currently a permenant resident in Australia and may be in a non voting status for quite some time.

Australias model is good I think. You have to vote and they have some kind of transferable system, so your vote goes to somebody you have indicated a preference for. Of course you can still abstain by spoiling your ballot or not voting and paying a small fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because of my life choices I have lived and worked in countries that I did not have the right to vote. I had most other rights except the right to join the US Military or work for the US Government. I am currently a permenant resident in Australia and may be in a non voting status for quite some time.</p>
<p>Australias model is good I think. You have to vote and they have some kind of transferable system, so your vote goes to somebody you have indicated a preference for. Of course you can still abstain by spoiling your ballot or not voting and paying a small fine.</p>
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		<title>By: In defence of abstention &#171; doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-596678</link>
		<dc:creator>In defence of abstention &#171; doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-596678</guid>
		<description>[...] came the guilt trip from Ideas of Civilisation. He brought up the current situation in Zimbabwe saying, &#8220;it’s a reminder of the freedoms, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] came the guilt trip from Ideas of Civilisation. He brought up the current situation in Zimbabwe saying, &#8220;it’s a reminder of the freedoms, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jack stephen</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-590775</link>
		<dc:creator>jack stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-590775</guid>
		<description>Yes, &quot;none of the above,&quot; does &quot;win&quot; a lot of elections but the next best candidate always gets in under &quot;first past the post&quot; (actually nearest the post) - and also in transferable vote systems too no doubt.
If there were a &quot;none of the above&quot; option on a ballot paper I&#039;m sure a lot of people would vote for it.
It won&#039;t happen, though, because politicians are in charge of the ballot papers and &quot;none of the above&quot; would show them up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, &#8220;none of the above,&#8221; does &#8220;win&#8221; a lot of elections but the next best candidate always gets in under &#8220;first past the post&#8221; (actually nearest the post) &#8211; and also in transferable vote systems too no doubt.<br />
If there were a &#8220;none of the above&#8221; option on a ballot paper I&#8217;m sure a lot of people would vote for it.<br />
It won&#8217;t happen, though, because politicians are in charge of the ballot papers and &#8220;none of the above&#8221; would show them up.</p>
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		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-590771</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-590771</guid>
		<description>Completely agree with you there Vicky, that&#039;s why I wondered about your &#039;none of the above&#039; point. I just got the wrong end of the stick there. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree with you there Vicky, that&#8217;s why I wondered about your &#8216;none of the above&#8217; point. I just got the wrong end of the stick there. <img src='http://doctorvee.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Vicky</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-590770</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-590770</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re talking about the drop in turnout then it&#039;s a big leap of faith to see a fall in voter numbers as &#039;abstention&#039; and not just laziness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re talking about the drop in turnout then it&#8217;s a big leap of faith to see a fall in voter numbers as &#8216;abstention&#8217; and not just laziness.</p>
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		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-589235</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-589235</guid>
		<description>Vicky, I think you&#039;re right about the single-issue thing. If I was at university in 2003 no doubt it would have been a much more political place, what with the Iraq War starting. (It&#039;s amazing to think that we&#039;ve been in Iraq for so long that I was still in school when the war started.) I think for most students, politics is about this kind of single issue campaigning rather than anything party political.

As for abstention meaning &#039;none of the above&#039; as you suggest, in that case none of the above has in fact had a majority vote several times before. Notably in local elections of course, where &#039;none of the above&#039; almost always wins, but also in the Scottish Parliament elections in 2003. No power vacuums or re-elections result, but hopefully it is enough to give politicians food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vicky, I think you&#8217;re right about the single-issue thing. If I was at university in 2003 no doubt it would have been a much more political place, what with the Iraq War starting. (It&#8217;s amazing to think that we&#8217;ve been in Iraq for so long that I was still in school when the war started.) I think for most students, politics is about this kind of single issue campaigning rather than anything party political.</p>
<p>As for abstention meaning &#8216;none of the above&#8217; as you suggest, in that case none of the above has in fact had a majority vote several times before. Notably in local elections of course, where &#8216;none of the above&#8217; almost always wins, but also in the Scottish Parliament elections in 2003. No power vacuums or re-elections result, but hopefully it is enough to give politicians food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/06/20/student-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-587174</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2253#comment-587174</guid>
		<description>I bet there are plenty of politically active students at Edinburgh uni - you just have to look for a bit harder for them than you would do in, say, Bradford where I studied (and spent many a Thursday travelling down to London to take part in protests!)  Mind you, the student demographics are different between the two cities, and there was a hell of a lot more going on politically in 1992 (abolition of student grants, coalmines closing, Criminal Justice Bill, endless human rights issues)

Re abstention as protest; I don&#039;t admit to knowing much about its effectiveness but the problem with abstention is that - in the event of a majority vote for &#039;None of the above&#039; (unlikely, but it would have to be considered a risk) then what - endless follow up elections and/or by-elections until a candidate actually wins a majority?

Anyway, as someone else mentioned upthread the best way to effect change is within.  Run for local council - god knows Fife could do with some fresh thinking :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet there are plenty of politically active students at Edinburgh uni &#8211; you just have to look for a bit harder for them than you would do in, say, Bradford where I studied (and spent many a Thursday travelling down to London to take part in protests!)  Mind you, the student demographics are different between the two cities, and there was a hell of a lot more going on politically in 1992 (abolition of student grants, coalmines closing, Criminal Justice Bill, endless human rights issues)</p>
<p>Re abstention as protest; I don&#8217;t admit to knowing much about its effectiveness but the problem with abstention is that &#8211; in the event of a majority vote for &#8216;None of the above&#8217; (unlikely, but it would have to be considered a risk) then what &#8211; endless follow up elections and/or by-elections until a candidate actually wins a majority?</p>
<p>Anyway, as someone else mentioned upthread the best way to effect change is within.  Run for local council &#8211; god knows Fife could do with some fresh thinking <img src='http://doctorvee.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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