<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Why the Eurovision bloc voting theory is bogus</title>
	<atom:link href="http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/</link>
	<description>Not a real vee</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:47:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: As if the real Kate Nash wasn&#8217;t bad enough &#171; doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1535116</link>
		<dc:creator>As if the real Kate Nash wasn&#8217;t bad enough &#171; doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 00:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-1535116</guid>
		<description>[...] year the voting all went Germany&#8217;s way. (So much for all that Balkan and Baltic bloc voting!) They romped away in a similar fashion to Norway last year. Germany&#8217;s strategy was to enter [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] year the voting all went Germany&#8217;s way. (So much for all that Balkan and Baltic bloc voting!) They romped away in a similar fashion to Norway last year. Germany&#8217;s strategy was to enter [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: UkraineBBz</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1210243</link>
		<dc:creator>UkraineBBz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 19:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-1210243</guid>
		<description>Block voting obv exists.
Ireland won 4 times in the 90&#039;s
UK won 1 time
Italy won all in the east, and when Juries existed nearly EVERY country gave at least 1 point to UK and Ireland SO...
I hope juries come back
Ukraine has gr8 music anyway and we dont need dumb Russia or Baltic countries to help us win</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Block voting obv exists.<br />
Ireland won 4 times in the 90&#8242;s<br />
UK won 1 time<br />
Italy won all in the east, and when Juries existed nearly EVERY country gave at least 1 point to UK and Ireland SO&#8230;<br />
I hope juries come back<br />
Ukraine has gr8 music anyway and we dont need dumb Russia or Baltic countries to help us win</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1031054</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-1031054</guid>
		<description>Dave, Welcome to the blog and thanks very much for your comment. I agree with all of it. Much appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, Welcome to the blog and thanks very much for your comment. I agree with all of it. Much appreciated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-1031044</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-1031044</guid>
		<description>Doctorvee has it spot on when commenting on the &quot;perception&quot; of bloc voting. But that is actually quite a big issue for the original western european nations. If you hear during the scoring 12 points going to predictable candidates, coupled with a cynical commentator (Sir T) that message sticks in the mind. 

It does I feel play a considerable part statistically, but it doesn&#039;t &quot;decide&quot; a result, it does do present some mathematical barriers. Bloc voting DOES exist, but not to the extent some people claim.

Regarding UK entries : It&#039;s a case of wanting it both ways. We&#039;d never be able to send a top act because they wouldn&#039;t do it as it&#039;s considered a joke/laugh at the foreigners (propogated by Wogan over the last couple of decades).. and then complain when the crap act we sent did badly! The fact is all these &quot;new&quot; countries be they Baltic, former USSR, former Yugoslavia, all seem to take it quite seriously and send some of their top stars who are also known within their region. Probably the main reason they vote for eachother a bit. 

Times change. UK used to send acts who were &quot;big&quot; back in the 60s and early 70s and tended to do pretty well as a consequence. Even mid 70s through mid 90s we racked up lots of 2nd places with rubbish.. 15 2nd places in total I believe ... we aren&#039;t bothered any more other than whinging on the Sunday morning after the show.

2008 said it all. Andy Abraham sung ok with a dull song. Terry got miffed because he personally backed it on the UK show and gave his &quot;golden vote&quot; to get it into the sing-off when the UK public had already rejected it. To put things into total perspective, the song when released in the UK charts couldn&#039;t get in the Top 75. How can Brits criticise the rest of Europe for not liking a song the UK public clearly didn&#039;t in the first place??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doctorvee has it spot on when commenting on the &#8220;perception&#8221; of bloc voting. But that is actually quite a big issue for the original western european nations. If you hear during the scoring 12 points going to predictable candidates, coupled with a cynical commentator (Sir T) that message sticks in the mind. </p>
<p>It does I feel play a considerable part statistically, but it doesn&#8217;t &#8220;decide&#8221; a result, it does do present some mathematical barriers. Bloc voting DOES exist, but not to the extent some people claim.</p>
<p>Regarding UK entries : It&#8217;s a case of wanting it both ways. We&#8217;d never be able to send a top act because they wouldn&#8217;t do it as it&#8217;s considered a joke/laugh at the foreigners (propogated by Wogan over the last couple of decades).. and then complain when the crap act we sent did badly! The fact is all these &#8220;new&#8221; countries be they Baltic, former USSR, former Yugoslavia, all seem to take it quite seriously and send some of their top stars who are also known within their region. Probably the main reason they vote for eachother a bit. </p>
<p>Times change. UK used to send acts who were &#8220;big&#8221; back in the 60s and early 70s and tended to do pretty well as a consequence. Even mid 70s through mid 90s we racked up lots of 2nd places with rubbish.. 15 2nd places in total I believe &#8230; we aren&#8217;t bothered any more other than whinging on the Sunday morning after the show.</p>
<p>2008 said it all. Andy Abraham sung ok with a dull song. Terry got miffed because he personally backed it on the UK show and gave his &#8220;golden vote&#8221; to get it into the sing-off when the UK public had already rejected it. To put things into total perspective, the song when released in the UK charts couldn&#8217;t get in the Top 75. How can Brits criticise the rest of Europe for not liking a song the UK public clearly didn&#8217;t in the first place??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: doctorvee</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-718891</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorvee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-718891</guid>
		<description>Kara, very few of the relationships usually cited are actually hard-and-fast 100%-guaranteed 12 point swaps which was part of my point.

The EBU have changed the voting system because of the damaging &lt;em&gt;perception&lt;/em&gt; that there was bloc voting, not necessarily because there actually was bloc voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kara, very few of the relationships usually cited are actually hard-and-fast 100%-guaranteed 12 point swaps which was part of my point.</p>
<p>The EBU have changed the voting system because of the damaging <em>perception</em> that there was bloc voting, not necessarily because there actually was bloc voting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kara</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-718838</link>
		<dc:creator>kara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-718838</guid>
		<description>ummm some facts i think are wrong. you said that the uk and ireland vote for each other well that aint quite true in 2003 ireland did not vote for the uk at all and in 2007 the uk did not vote for ireland so its is quite obvious we dont and also if it was all hype then why would the esc change there policy and bring back the judges, they can obviously see that there is some sort of bloc voting</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ummm some facts i think are wrong. you said that the uk and ireland vote for each other well that aint quite true in 2003 ireland did not vote for the uk at all and in 2007 the uk did not vote for ireland so its is quite obvious we dont and also if it was all hype then why would the esc change there policy and bring back the judges, they can obviously see that there is some sort of bloc voting</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-705793</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-705793</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed reading this article, and agree with most of it. Nowadays in Britian it seems uncool not to be cynical, and that includes most TV hosts. Wogan&#039;s commentry is bigotry in disguse and it is time for him to go. I disagree, however, about Paddy o&#039;Connel, as I find him just as cynical. He is lazy, dull, speaks in a droning monotone and just rambles on, never saying anything constructive. His &#039;jokes&#039; are lame and his descriptions lack imagination (eg &quot;if you like yodelling you&#039;ll be in heavan&quot;)
I&#039;d like to hear Danny Wallace do it. I agree with Ben Gray also, yet I think the X-Factor is unwatchable trash and deserves the &#039;camp/kitch/cheesy&#039; image eurovision has.
My faveorates this year have been Portugal and Turkey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed reading this article, and agree with most of it. Nowadays in Britian it seems uncool not to be cynical, and that includes most TV hosts. Wogan&#8217;s commentry is bigotry in disguse and it is time for him to go. I disagree, however, about Paddy o&#8217;Connel, as I find him just as cynical. He is lazy, dull, speaks in a droning monotone and just rambles on, never saying anything constructive. His &#8216;jokes&#8217; are lame and his descriptions lack imagination (eg &#8220;if you like yodelling you&#8217;ll be in heavan&#8221;)<br />
I&#8217;d like to hear Danny Wallace do it. I agree with Ben Gray also, yet I think the X-Factor is unwatchable trash and deserves the &#8216;camp/kitch/cheesy&#8217; image eurovision has.<br />
My faveorates this year have been Portugal and Turkey</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Gray</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-703410</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-703410</guid>
		<description>This was a great article and I found myself agreeing with almost all of the points, especially those regarding the ignorance in the UK. I also would have buried my face in my hands and emigrated to Norway or something if I saw Paul O&#039;Grady working the audience up into hysteria over the name &quot;Azerbaijan&quot; which he can&#039;t even repeat properly.

The only thing I will have to disagree with you with is the quality of the UK&#039;s entry in 2008. Andy Abraham was not an X Factor loser or reject. Consider how enormous The X Factor competition is (putting aside the hype and the overuse of apocolyptic music,) and how much it means to the contestants who sing live every Saturday night. The show doubtlessly attracts and evetually produces true talent, regardless of success.

Andy Abraham was infact a close runner-up in that show and when I first found out he was competing in the UK&#039;s selection I was behind him before I even heard the song, because I know he has a fantastic voice, a wonderful personality, and wanted to represent the UK in his best interest, and I knew we would be in safe hands with him. I cannot comprehend the minds of those people who believe Michelle Gayle who brought back her swimming costume from her trip to Honolulu and decided it&#039;d be a laugh to lay an egg live on prime time British television would have actually got us a significantly better result than Andy did. I would have sent The Revelations if not Andy.

As for the song, well it was a bit dull and old fashioned, but I found it irresistably catchy nonetheless, and Andy clearly gave it 110% on the night and for that reason alone I am happy with our entry this year, even if I know we can still do better.

But putting that aside, I tip my hat to you because you are exactly right about the bloc voting theories. There are clearly some aspects of the voting that never seem to go away. (Cyprus&#039; 12 going to Greece) and don&#039;t know how best to explain those but really this is an article with sense, insight and confidence, so thank you for assuring me I&#039;m not alone in my thoughts in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a great article and I found myself agreeing with almost all of the points, especially those regarding the ignorance in the UK. I also would have buried my face in my hands and emigrated to Norway or something if I saw Paul O&#8217;Grady working the audience up into hysteria over the name &#8220;Azerbaijan&#8221; which he can&#8217;t even repeat properly.</p>
<p>The only thing I will have to disagree with you with is the quality of the UK&#8217;s entry in 2008. Andy Abraham was not an X Factor loser or reject. Consider how enormous The X Factor competition is (putting aside the hype and the overuse of apocolyptic music,) and how much it means to the contestants who sing live every Saturday night. The show doubtlessly attracts and evetually produces true talent, regardless of success.</p>
<p>Andy Abraham was infact a close runner-up in that show and when I first found out he was competing in the UK&#8217;s selection I was behind him before I even heard the song, because I know he has a fantastic voice, a wonderful personality, and wanted to represent the UK in his best interest, and I knew we would be in safe hands with him. I cannot comprehend the minds of those people who believe Michelle Gayle who brought back her swimming costume from her trip to Honolulu and decided it&#8217;d be a laugh to lay an egg live on prime time British television would have actually got us a significantly better result than Andy did. I would have sent The Revelations if not Andy.</p>
<p>As for the song, well it was a bit dull and old fashioned, but I found it irresistably catchy nonetheless, and Andy clearly gave it 110% on the night and for that reason alone I am happy with our entry this year, even if I know we can still do better.</p>
<p>But putting that aside, I tip my hat to you because you are exactly right about the bloc voting theories. There are clearly some aspects of the voting that never seem to go away. (Cyprus&#8217; 12 going to Greece) and don&#8217;t know how best to explain those but really this is an article with sense, insight and confidence, so thank you for assuring me I&#8217;m not alone in my thoughts in the UK.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alianora La Canta</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-666546</link>
		<dc:creator>Alianora La Canta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-666546</guid>
		<description>I think the main reason the UK tends to do badly is because the sort of people in the UK who vote for its entry have very different musical tastes (more middle-of-the-road pop, resembling America&#039;s musical taste in some ways) to our European counterparts. As a result, the UK entry tends to be UK-orientated, which probably isn&#039;t the best strategy for a European competition where the UK is very much has the minority of power.

The other European countries, by and large, have musical tastes that are closer to one another&#039;s. This is particularly true for the Eastern bloc (possibly why the rigged voting theory came about in the first place), but the facts that most of the other European nations have multiple neighbours connected by land and have invaded each other a fair number of times mean they all tend to agree more on cultural things. Famous artists are effectively a mini-invasion, because other countries know and presumably like that tune prior to the competition.

Obviously, proximity of musical tastes does not prevent a sprinking of disastrous entries (I know the UK have had a few rubbish songs, but it doesn&#039;t have a monopoly on them...) but it surely must help. If you like a song, you&#039;re more likely to vote for it!

Maybe that&#039;s why so many people in the UK don&#039;t care about who wins Eurovision - because they&#039;re not terribly keen on either the UK entry or the alternatives offered for voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the main reason the UK tends to do badly is because the sort of people in the UK who vote for its entry have very different musical tastes (more middle-of-the-road pop, resembling America&#8217;s musical taste in some ways) to our European counterparts. As a result, the UK entry tends to be UK-orientated, which probably isn&#8217;t the best strategy for a European competition where the UK is very much has the minority of power.</p>
<p>The other European countries, by and large, have musical tastes that are closer to one another&#8217;s. This is particularly true for the Eastern bloc (possibly why the rigged voting theory came about in the first place), but the facts that most of the other European nations have multiple neighbours connected by land and have invaded each other a fair number of times mean they all tend to agree more on cultural things. Famous artists are effectively a mini-invasion, because other countries know and presumably like that tune prior to the competition.</p>
<p>Obviously, proximity of musical tastes does not prevent a sprinking of disastrous entries (I know the UK have had a few rubbish songs, but it doesn&#8217;t have a monopoly on them&#8230;) but it surely must help. If you like a song, you&#8217;re more likely to vote for it!</p>
<p>Maybe that&#8217;s why so many people in the UK don&#8217;t care about who wins Eurovision &#8211; because they&#8217;re not terribly keen on either the UK entry or the alternatives offered for voting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/05/27/why-the-eurovision-bloc-voting-theory-is-bogus/comment-page-1/#comment-550323</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 01:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctorvee.co.uk/?p=2242#comment-550323</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with some of the comments here. After reading about the entrants for the ESC from other countries. It seems that famous groups are entered and this is the key to obtaining better results as singers are well known in more than one country. 

However,  here in the UK we keep entering singers who are just &quot;starting out&quot;.  The UK needs to utilise famous singers we have here and who are also known internationally, then may be, we will begin to see a change. Nothing is going to improve for us if we keep turning the same old wheel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with some of the comments here. After reading about the entrants for the ESC from other countries. It seems that famous groups are entered and this is the key to obtaining better results as singers are well known in more than one country. </p>
<p>However,  here in the UK we keep entering singers who are just &#8220;starting out&#8221;.  The UK needs to utilise famous singers we have here and who are also known internationally, then may be, we will begin to see a change. Nothing is going to improve for us if we keep turning the same old wheel.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

