Comments on: BoJo might be a bozo, but Labour is the real danger

By: Vicky

Vicky — Mon, 12 May 2008 21:11:54 +0000

I think it’s not necessarily Boris himself that people are concerned about - it’s his cronies. No doubt Ken had them too, but by the time he became mayor I suspect most people knew who they were and what they were capable of - after all, Ken has never been one to shy away from controversy.

Also, it’s a bit unfair to suggest that most people in their 30s are still outraged about losing free school milk (and it was only cut for over 7’s from what I remember!). It was symptomatic of wider cuts in education spending at the time which we all felt; I remember my parents struggling with the high mortgage interest rates *and* then having to pay more for school meals. Not to mention having to keep two small children entertained by candle light during the regular power cuts of the late 70s/early 80s whilst the miner’s strike went on.

Fortunately, power cuts nowadays are more likely to be due to the rubbish weather :/

I expect the Nu-Lab generation will have their own outrage in a decade’s time - rising house prices, Iraq, price of oil - and articulate young bloggers will roll their eyes and say ‘Get over it’. Of course you want to, but it’s such an intrinsic part of your childhood that sometimes it’s difficult to see the wood for the trees - and to realise that whilst David Cameron is not Maggie Thatcher, there are still many of the old guard hanging around (just) ready to attempt to wield their influence over young ‘Dave’.

By: Scott

Scott — Mon, 05 May 2008 08:17:15 +0000

A really interesting piece I read this morning, along with your follow up.

Not sure if you’ve seen the piece by septicisle on this http://www.septicisle.info/2008/05/why-ken-lost-to-boris.html which has some comments about Boris (and the knee-jerk reaction against him by some) at the start, and then a number of other points - some of which you’ll find familiar .

Cheers

Scott

By: BoJo might be a bozo… the concise edition » doctorvee

BoJo might be a bozo… the concise edition » doctorvee — Mon, 05 May 2008 00:28:33 +0000

[...] 5th 2008 01:20. Updated: May 5th 2008 01:28 Series: Boris Johnson and political discourseTOCBoJo might be a bozo, but Labour is the real dangerBoJo might be a bozo… the [...]

By: Scottish Roundup » Blog Archive » Tartan Special Goes Dutch Memorial Edition

Sun, 04 May 2008 22:39:28 +0000

[...] Richard Havers joins in with the majority of the population of England and Wales and sticking the knife in to Gordon. Nae Balls would seem to be the theme. (Perhaps he should get rid of Mr Balls instead?) Angus Nicholson highlights the benefit of burying bad stories. Perhaps Gordon could change the law? Casillis tries his hand at political advertising. Don’t look yet Gordon, things are still looking pretty bad (remember John Major?). Doctor Vee on the other hand has just had it with politicians in general. [...]

By: doctorvee

doctorvee — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:07:35 +0000

Longrider,

The thing is that if I were to write a post advocating socialist policies, undoubtedly someone would come along and say to me, “It’s all very well for you to say that while you’re still young — wait until you are living in the real world and have to pay the taxes that fund it.” For people to use my age like this during a debate is quite common, but I don’t doubt that will change any time soon. No doubt we are all familiar with such tactics as this. “Well, you wouldn’t know what it’s like because you’re middle class,” or whatever.

It is more sloppy debating of the kind that makes me despair. On this basis, you can never win a debate. While I can’t have my finger on the pulse of every demographic in this country — a flaw I share with every other person in the world — I will in the meantime call it how I see it from my perspective, and allow others to call it as they see it from their perspective. I think that is fair.

By: jack stephen

jack stephen — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:45:56 +0000

As for Thatcher’s government it was pretty close to authoritarian and it was definitely anti-Scottish which made - and still makes - me more pro SNP than I might have been; but a lot of the time I voted Liberal (later Lib-Dem) rather than SNP.
Voting along tribal lines incenses me which is why I despaired of the fact that Labour always won in Scotland in my lifetime - especially locally - and that tendency made the SNP “win” in Scotland last year such a refreshing event. But doubtless they too will muck it up in time.
I would have voted for Brian Paddick, I think, with no 2nd choice.
I can’t say who is preferable, Boris or Ken, - references to “watermelon smiles” and picaninnies” turn my stomach but Ken has his egregious faults too. The real problem is the calibre of who stands for election. Perhaps wanting to be elected ought to be an automatic disbar to people standing for election. (That’s a serious suggestion by the way.)
This “Labour” government has been a massive disappointment and Gordon Brown’s fixation with the US will not help to redress this.
The recent banking crisis was an opportunity to reassert that unbridled markets lead to instability. There must be regulation.
BTW the devastation of social housing by Thatcher is, to my mind, a historical mistake on a par with the Beeching cuts to the railways. The UK is the worse for both.

By: Longrider

Longrider — Sun, 04 May 2008 16:27:40 +0000

I would advise not taking Dave’s “real world advice”… It’s twaddle.

Your analysis was reasoned and far from “all over the place”. Pointing out and criticising the voting along tribal lines was perfectly reasonable - My party, right or wrong - is a reprehensible and unprincipled stance to take.

I, too, was of working age during the Thatcher years. At the time, I was opposed to many of her policies. In latter years I realised that she was right on many of them. As for Dave’s assertion that her government was authoritarian, don’t make me laugh…

By: Curly

Curly — Sun, 04 May 2008 13:04:30 +0000

Look like the Brown Matrix is heading down the pan then!

By: doctorvee

doctorvee — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:49:21 +0000

Dave, I have to disagree with you here. You are right that Labour’s most prominent defenders are luvvies such as Cohen and Toynbee.

But there are plenty of other people who would certainly describe themselves as being of the left and were either speaking out in favour of Ken Livingstone or — more commonly — against Boris Johnson. I only use the example of the London election here because it is so current, but this can easily be extended to any other recent election.

My point is that I wish these people would see that supporting Labour does their cause as much damage as, if not more than, supporting the Conservatives. I suspect your point is that if someone supports Labour then they cannot be on the left. But I think this is a rhetorical trick. Whether you call them left or another name, these people certainly exist (as you will see if you peruse the blogs and the message boards).

By: Nosemonkey

Nosemonkey — Sun, 04 May 2008 12:48:42 +0000

Dear Lord, who’s this Dave chap? I thought the standard “people who voted Boris did it for a laugh” line was patronising, but that really takes the biscuit. “Let me give you some real world advice, son”? Did he really just say that?

Especially considering the fact that he seems to agree with your central point, only can’t quite get over the knee-jerk partisan reaction to anything that could vaguely be construed as saying that the Tories aren’t actively evil. Bizarre…

As for the “yeah, but the Tories did the same when they were in power” thing - of course they did. But they haven’t had a free run at office and a massive parliamentary majority for the last decade. Attack the powerful and those who wield power - I thought that was meant to be one of the central ideas of the left?