Comments on: The rights of the dead (an update) http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/ Not a real vee Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:47:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Vicky http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-314547 Vicky Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:08:57 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/#comment-314547 But say (heaven forbid) that one of your parents dies or - despite your protestations - in a few years' you have kids and at the age of 18 one of them dies without having made clear what they want done with their bits and bobs. Then what? Would you be happy to sit back and let the 'state' have whatever they fancied from that person, or would you - as a son or father consumed with grief - like to keep them in one piece until they were buried/cremated? On preview, your first commenter says it better! But say (heaven forbid) that one of your parents dies or – despite your protestations – in a few years’ you have kids and at the age of 18 one of them dies without having made clear what they want done with their bits and bobs. Then what? Would you be happy to sit back and let the ‘state’ have whatever they fancied from that person, or would you – as a son or father consumed with grief – like to keep them in one piece until they were buried/cremated?

On preview, your first commenter says it better!

]]> By: Scottish Roundup » Blog Archive » Death and Taxes http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-312218 Scottish Roundup » Blog Archive » Death and Taxes Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:13:36 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/#comment-312218 [...] far by interfering with what happens to our dead bodies. On the other hand, Cassilis, Bookdrunk and Duncan all point out that we won’t be using them [...] [...] far by interfering with what happens to our dead bodies. On the other hand, Cassilis, Bookdrunk and Duncan all point out that we won’t be using them [...]

]]> By: Shuggy http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-310050 Shuggy Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:01:38 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/#comment-310050 "They have no right to make any such presumption - and should never be granted that right. Ever." This is right, I think. The whole 'presumed consent'/tacit consent idea is rather dangerous, I think. All the evidence suggests that, since most people aren't too fussed about what happens to their organs after death, the problem seems to be that this preference hasn't been properly expressed in terms of the take-up of organ donor cards. There's been plenty of suggestions as to how this might be done - asking people when they register with a doctor, for example - and I would have thought that it would be more senible, and liberal, to try these rather than going down the 'presumed consent' road. In addition to the posts you link below, you might find the following interesting: This one demolishes the idea that you can't have a relationship with the state after you're dead: http://sinclairsmusings.blogspot.com/2008/01/i-have-to-believe-that-when-my-eyes-are.html This from Norm is good on the whole question of property and consent. http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2008/01/organ-donation.html “They have no right to make any such presumption – and should never be granted that right. Ever.”

This is right, I think. The whole ‘presumed consent’/tacit consent idea is rather dangerous, I think. All the evidence suggests that, since most people aren’t too fussed about what happens to their organs after death, the problem seems to be that this preference hasn’t been properly expressed in terms of the take-up of organ donor cards. There’s been plenty of suggestions as to how this might be done – asking people when they register with a doctor, for example – and I would have thought that it would be more senible, and liberal, to try these rather than going down the ‘presumed consent’ road.

In addition to the posts you link below, you might find the following interesting:

This one demolishes the idea that you can’t have a relationship with the state after you’re dead:

http://sinclairsmusings.blogspot.com/2008/01/i-have-to-believe-that-when-my-eyes-are.html

This from Norm is good on the whole question of property and consent.

http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2008/01/organ-donation.html

]]> By: Bellgrovebelle http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-309510 Bellgrovebelle Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:26:01 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/#comment-309510 Totally with you on this issue - what good are my organs going to do me when I'm dead? If my organs are in a usable state, whoever needs them is very welcome to them. How can my body being intact (although still very very dead) bring reassurance or comfort to those I leave behind? It comforts me more to know that I could help people after I'm gone in such a valuable way. The state already dictates what you should and shouldn't do with a dead body (throwing it over the back fence or leaving it for the bin men to collect not being an option apparently), so saying that useful organs should be removed prior to cremation/burial is not much of a step further in my mind. It's practical, and a benefit to public health. Totally with you on this issue – what good are my organs going to do me when I’m dead? If my organs are in a usable state, whoever needs them is very welcome to them.

How can my body being intact (although still very very dead) bring reassurance or comfort to those I leave behind? It comforts me more to know that I could help people after I’m gone in such a valuable way.

The state already dictates what you should and shouldn’t do with a dead body (throwing it over the back fence or leaving it for the bin men to collect not being an option apparently), so saying that useful organs should be removed prior to cremation/burial is not much of a step further in my mind. It’s practical, and a benefit to public health.

]]> By: Links « Gary Andrews http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-307773 Links « Gary Andrews Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:58:02 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/#comment-307773 [...] Dr. Vee’s take on organ donation, and a balanced roundup of views on both sides of the fence. That’s one of the reason’s [...] [...] Dr. Vee’s take on organ donation, and a balanced roundup of views on both sides of the fence. That’s one of the reason’s [...]

]]> By: Longrider http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/comment-page-1/#comment-307713 Longrider Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:18:12 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2008/01/16/the-rights-of-the-dead-an-update/#comment-307713 <i>The question that this organ donation hoo-ha asks is this: Should the rights of the dying be put ahead of the rights of those who are already dead? The answer is surely ‘yes’.</i> Wrong question. The question you should be asking is; "do the ends justify the means?" Answer; No. The day you answer "yes" to that question, you set a very dangerous precedent. This is not - and has never been - about the rights of the dead; it is about the state "presuming" consent. They have no right to make any such presumption - and should never be granted that right. Ever. My stance has hardened, too ;) The question that this organ donation hoo-ha asks is this: Should the rights of the dying be put ahead of the rights of those who are already dead? The answer is surely ‘yes’.

Wrong question. The question you should be asking is; “do the ends justify the means?” Answer; No.

The day you answer “yes” to that question, you set a very dangerous precedent.

This is not – and has never been – about the rights of the dead; it is about the state “presuming” consent. They have no right to make any such presumption – and should never be granted that right. Ever.

My stance has hardened, too ;)

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