Comments on: Hamilton: How very DARE Alonso try and race me? http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/ Not a real vee Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:47:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: matthew http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-135533 matthew Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:48:01 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-135533 It looked like a clear diversion from the racing line over to block Hamilton of the start to me, lounge, swerve, call it what you will. As you say, the line was on the inside and Alonso disadvantaged himself by briefly going to the outside both off the start and around the first corner to prevent any chance of Hamilton from getting past him. If Alonso hadn't pushed Hamilton over off the start then edged him off the track on the first corner and even put some of his own wheels on the green, could Hamilton have got past? Seems Alonso thought he was enough of a danger to have to give it a try. Here's an idea, if Alonso hadn't have taken the time and gone off line to squeeze out Hamilton could he have been up with the Ferrari's or even in front of them? It looked like a clear diversion from the racing line over to block Hamilton of the start to me, lounge, swerve, call it what you will. As you say, the line was on the inside and Alonso disadvantaged himself by briefly going to the outside both off the start and around the first corner to prevent any chance of Hamilton from getting past him.
If Alonso hadn’t pushed Hamilton over off the start then edged him off the track on the first corner and even put some of his own wheels on the green, could Hamilton have got past? Seems Alonso thought he was enough of a danger to have to give it a try.
Here’s an idea, if Alonso hadn’t have taken the time and gone off line to squeeze out Hamilton could he have been up with the Ferrari’s or even in front of them?

]]> By: Scott http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-135390 Scott Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:46:07 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-135390 The racing line at Spa diagonals across from back right to front left (as you look from the back of the grid). For whatever reason pole was set up on the dirty side, I can only presume since the run to La Source is rather short, it is to give the polesitter the inside line to keep an advantage even if he got a slightly poor start. I just watched the recording again, and there was no lunge from Alonso - just a smooth, deliberate, controlled squeeze off the track. But what on earth should Hamilton expect? You put your car there against your championship rival, he is NOT going to let you past. In that situation I would have expected any of the top drivers to close the door, and any other of them to use the media to try to pressurise the other driver that it was dangerous, and have stewards watch them in future. I think this is what Hamilton was doing, but he did it rather badly and it just came across as whining. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt - I hope he doesn't really think that's unreasonable, or he really has got a lot of learning to do :-) The racing line at Spa diagonals across from back right to front left (as you look from the back of the grid). For whatever reason pole was set up on the dirty side, I can only presume since the run to La Source is rather short, it is to give the polesitter the inside line to keep an advantage even if he got a slightly poor start.

I just watched the recording again, and there was no lunge from Alonso – just a smooth, deliberate, controlled squeeze off the track. But what on earth should Hamilton expect? You put your car there against your championship rival, he is NOT going to let you past. In that situation I would have expected any of the top drivers to close the door, and any other of them to use the media to try to pressurise the other driver that it was dangerous, and have stewards watch them in future. I think this is what Hamilton was doing, but he did it rather badly and it just came across as whining. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt – I hope he doesn’t really think that’s unreasonable, or he really has got a lot of learning to do :-)

]]> By: Clive http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-135227 Clive Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:59:17 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-135227 Actually, pole is not always on the "clean" side - which has led to some complaints in the past. Nobody mentioned anything about a clean or dusty side at Spa before the incident so I presume it's not much of an issue there. Raikkonen stands a very good chance of the championship this year because Lou and Nando are almost bound to push each other off in one of the last races. And next year Lou might find he has more competition than everyone expects. There is a guy called Rosberg to think about, f'rinstance, not to mention the outside chance that Gary Paffett will be Hamilton's team mate. Plus there's no guarantee that next year's McLaren will be any good. BMW are looking possibles and you can't write off Renault (you can, however, write off Ferrari - their reliability problems this year are merely the forerunners of the degeneration that is bound to occur after the changes to the team made by Montezemolo). My money's on Heidfeld. Actually, pole is not always on the “clean” side – which has led to some complaints in the past. Nobody mentioned anything about a clean or dusty side at Spa before the incident so I presume it’s not much of an issue there.

Raikkonen stands a very good chance of the championship this year because Lou and Nando are almost bound to push each other off in one of the last races. And next year Lou might find he has more competition than everyone expects. There is a guy called Rosberg to think about, f’rinstance, not to mention the outside chance that Gary Paffett will be Hamilton’s team mate. Plus there’s no guarantee that next year’s McLaren will be any good. BMW are looking possibles and you can’t write off Renault (you can, however, write off Ferrari – their reliability problems this year are merely the forerunners of the degeneration that is bound to occur after the changes to the team made by Montezemolo).

My money’s on Heidfeld.

]]> By: matthew http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-135159 matthew Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:24:26 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-135159 <blockquote>Re “clean to dirty”, Alonso started on the dirty side and the inside - he moved to the clean side asap (of course), to the right side to brake for the corner (of course) and to cover the guy behind him (of course). He was also ahead into the corner, and during the whole “non incident”.</blockquote> Youre sure he started on the dirty side? Surely pole starts on the clean side and he was right behind pole in 3rd place was he not? If not then fair enough but it still seemed like a deliberate lunge at Hamilton which could have potentially taken both of them out. A fair risk if youre not in the same team but even if the team arent fighting for the constructors championship it's a dodgy manoeuvre at best

Re “clean to dirty”, Alonso started on the dirty side and the inside – he moved to the clean side asap (of course), to the right side to brake for the corner (of course) and to cover the guy behind him (of course). He was also ahead into the corner, and during the whole “non incident”.

Youre sure he started on the dirty side? Surely pole starts on the clean side and he was right behind pole in 3rd place was he not? If not then fair enough but it still seemed like a deliberate lunge at Hamilton which could have potentially taken both of them out. A fair risk if youre not in the same team but even if the team arent fighting for the constructors championship it’s a dodgy manoeuvre at best

]]> By: Scott http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-135017 Scott Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:46:08 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-135017 Re "clean to dirty", Alonso started on the dirty side and the inside - he moved to the clean side asap (of course), to the right side to brake for the corner (of course) and to cover the guy behind him (of course). He was also ahead into the corner, and during the whole "non incident". Really, what did Hamilton EXPECT? He's racing Alonso for the title, screwed him over in Hungary, and has been mouthing off in the press. Then he decides to place himself outside Alonso and expects Alonso to roll over and just let Hamilton drive past? Seriously, I'd have lost all respect for Alonso if he didn't robustly defend his position. No constructor points to care about, even if that were the main thing - of course he will defend. From Hamilton's viewpoint, it's okay to chuckle about "Oops I came from a bit far back" when lunging past and banging wheels with Kimi at Monza (absolutely fair, and no complaint from anyone), but not okay when Alonso doesn't allow the same (no complaint from anyone but Hamilton - not the UK media, not any other driver asked, not Ron Dennis - only Lewis). If he believes there was an issue he needs to grow up. If he's trying to play the media (as I hope is the case)...do it better. Re “clean to dirty”, Alonso started on the dirty side and the inside – he moved to the clean side asap (of course), to the right side to brake for the corner (of course) and to cover the guy behind him (of course). He was also ahead into the corner, and during the whole “non incident”.

Really, what did Hamilton EXPECT? He’s racing Alonso for the title, screwed him over in Hungary, and has been mouthing off in the press. Then he decides to place himself outside Alonso and expects Alonso to roll over and just let Hamilton drive past? Seriously, I’d have lost all respect for Alonso if he didn’t robustly defend his position. No constructor points to care about, even if that were the main thing – of course he will defend.

From Hamilton’s viewpoint, it’s okay to chuckle about “Oops I came from a bit far back” when lunging past and banging wheels with Kimi at Monza (absolutely fair, and no complaint from anyone), but not okay when Alonso doesn’t allow the same (no complaint from anyone but Hamilton – not the UK media, not any other driver asked, not Ron Dennis – only Lewis).

If he believes there was an issue he needs to grow up. If he’s trying to play the media (as I hope is the case)…do it better.

]]> By: matthew http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134819 matthew Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:45:33 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-134819 I'm not so keen on seeing Alonso win, not given his recent shenanigans anyway. I'd like to see Raikonnen win. I’m not so keen on seeing Alonso win, not given his recent shenanigans anyway. I’d like to see Raikonnen win.

]]> By: doctorvee http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134815 doctorvee Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:36:18 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-134815 That's actually what I would prefer to see Matthew. I don't think Hamilton quite deserves to be champion this year. He is not yet the complete package (witness his efforts at the Nürburgring in the rain). But it's only a matter of time, and I can imagine Hamilton being more dominant within a couple of years. It would be nice to see a rookie win the championship. But it would also be cool to see Alonso win three titles in a row with two different teams. That’s actually what I would prefer to see Matthew. I don’t think Hamilton quite deserves to be champion this year. He is not yet the complete package (witness his efforts at the Nürburgring in the rain). But it’s only a matter of time, and I can imagine Hamilton being more dominant within a couple of years.

It would be nice to see a rookie win the championship. But it would also be cool to see Alonso win three titles in a row with two different teams.

]]> By: matthew http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134812 matthew Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:02:01 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-134812 One thing's for sure, It's certainly shaping up for a close and exciting end to the season. I'd like to see Hamilton <i>JUST</i> miss the championship this year and go on to completely TONK the field next year. One thing’s for sure, It’s certainly shaping up for a close and exciting end to the season.
I’d like to see Hamilton JUST miss the championship this year and go on to completely TONK the field next year.

]]> By: Andy http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134792 Andy Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:10:54 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-134792 It would be interesting to see if Alonso had stayed on the clean side whether he would have actually been able to challenge Massa for the first corner, and possibly even lead the drivers championship now (given the Ferrari pace though, that would be doubtful he would be able to hold Massa back for the whole race). I don't know how 'dirty' the dirty side is in Spa. Given that Lewis and Massa didn't cut across to the clean side, I don't think there was much in it. The move was fair. a little hard perhaps, and he was making a point, but he had the line for the corner and had nothing to lose. I believe the 'fuming' angle is more the press than Lewis. I wonder what the bookies will give me for a championship-deciding collision a la Prost/Senna...? It would be interesting to see if Alonso had stayed on the clean side whether he would have actually been able to challenge Massa for the first corner, and possibly even lead the drivers championship now (given the Ferrari pace though, that would be doubtful he would be able to hold Massa back for the whole race). I don’t know how ‘dirty’ the dirty side is in Spa. Given that Lewis and Massa didn’t cut across to the clean side, I don’t think there was much in it.

The move was fair. a little hard perhaps, and he was making a point, but he had the line for the corner and had nothing to lose. I believe the ‘fuming’ angle is more the press than Lewis.

I wonder what the bookies will give me for a championship-deciding collision a la Prost/Senna…?

]]> By: matthew http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134780 matthew Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:49:13 +0000 http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/09/17/hamilton-how-very-dare-alonso-try-and-race-me/#comment-134780 Dirty to clean is fair enough, but I thought that the advantage of staying on the clean side FAR outweighed trying to get off the start and move over to the dirty side in front of a rival then get around the first corner on the dirty side. Dirty to clean is fair enough, but I thought that the advantage of staying on the clean side FAR outweighed trying to get off the start and move over to the dirty side in front of a rival then get around the first corner on the dirty side.

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